Radio Nippon presents, gSugahara Akikofs EDGE TALKhPart1 Guest is Mr. Tomabechi Hideto
S:Tonight I can make a talk with an excellent person, Mr. Tomabechi Hideto. Your book has the interesting title, gThe skills of brainwashing to make the other fall in love in a momenth, which women want to buy with just a look. You have already been active not only in Japan but also USA and so on as a psychologist and a neuroscientist. Recently many books have been published.
S:In this two years?
T:Yes. Two years.
S:When I see the books ranking in AMAZON, I often see your name. Itfs Tomabechi Boom, isnft it? Then to fall in love at first sight, when we consider it as a skill of love, I think everyone wants to know it. Is this really effective?
T:Pretty effective. Except this skill, do you remember ga truetone of breast lifth provided in Discovery Channel several years ago? The reason is that researches like those were military at that time. And I guess the researchers had serious misgivings like gis it really allowed to reveal such researches?h So I talked with lawyer and decided to make them like a joke and mild. Actually not only the truetone but also methods to slim and this skill are pretty effective. I thought measures against the Pharmaceutical Affairs Law in order to avoid troubles and discussed with lawyers. And I decided to let my book out just like a joke first, ga truetone of breast lifth. This book is the same. The skills in it surprise terrorists so much.
S:At first I read excitedly with anticipation for something with love. But gradually the emptiness of Tibetan Buddhism appears and I get surprised like gwhat on earth is this!?h Itfs interesting to draw us into new world like that.
T:Deliberately. I deliberately wrote like that. Including emptiness of Tibetan Buddhism, this world is empty. Stated simply, itfs the base of appearance of the Buddha not religiously but philosophically. Stated in physics, after the Quantum Mechanics. Itfs only the elementary particles, isnft it? In the String Theory, there are elementary particles where membranes vibrate and where with no vibration, no elementary particles. You think there are elementary particles without vibration, donft you? Or in the Quantum Theory, even if we make a box and eliminate thoroughly the contents of it with a cleaner to make a vacuum without elementary particles, they are formed one after another by Uncertainly Principle. Then there is a question : what is the vacuum where they are formed? Itfs just the logic of emptiness. It is common sense in modern physics but is not known so much. The world where we live is the space of emptiness like that as both the physical and the information space. It is an important message to know that properly when human beings live. I want to draw readers into this point. However if there were words like gthe quantum theoryh or gemptiness and dependent arisingh in the title, some physicists and Buddhist theologists might buy. But how would others? Of course it would be my work, too. Yet the entrance is gwhat? To make the other fall in love in a moment?h First I let readers read so that I draw them into the world of emptiness. So I said gdeliberatelyh.
S:They are ideas and truths which people donft read in daily life unless they are a Buddhist philosopher.
T:Yes. Though those people or theologists may think, so-called missionizers donft think it. For example, bonzes donft do because they are religious people. Itfs different from them, much purer, the idea of emptiness and dependent arising in Buddhafs sermon which philosophers think.
S:Finally it turns into the world of perception.
T:Thatfs right. Therefs a term, gVirtual Realityh in psychology. Ifve made some virtual realities with budget. They wore the devices like big goggles, data suits and head mounted displays to exchange information interactively. I made many first virsions. Itfs interesting that, for example, do you think itfs better to cover the whole face with goggle to play with head mounted displays, donft you? But if they did, they get so sick that they would fall down. Then they now donft cover their lower face. When they can see the ground, then donft get sick and can continue experiments a long time. And all head mounted displays now sold are made so. This is a result of the then researches. We experimented like that. At that time, we called physical reality grealityh and the information space we made with computers gvirtual realityh. It is before the cognitive science. Since it appeared, we call both the information and the physical space grealityh. Reality gives us the real feelings. There is no gvirtual realityh. All of things are real. This is said after the cognitive science.
S:The idea you said just now is greatly new for Japanese.
T:Itfs not new but neo-old. The truly newness is the world of the gMatrixh. Though I myself smoke a cigar and it seems that I smell with the nose, taste with the tongue and touch with the fingers, actually I feel them with the brain. So by making interfaces to give information as if it came from tongue, we can deceive the brain. We call the doorway of five senses the gmodal channelsh. Itfs the same for the brain whether they are in the physical space or in the information space. Itfs just the grealityh and the world of the gMatrixh is like that. This seems like a new message but it has always been said in the oriental ideas. We call it well-informed. Buddhafs idea of emptiness and dependent arising is just one of the tops. Therefore it is orientally an old idea. The Dualism of Occident had been continued and they quitted it by appearance of cognitive science.
Radio Nippon presents, gSugahara Akikofs EDGE TALKhPart2 Guest is Mr. Tomabechi Hideto
S:Let me change the topic. For example, there are two lovers. They share their physical space but sometimes they feel lonely even if they are together. They are happy when get impressed to see same things. But when they see a same movie, perhaps one gets moved with tears and the other gets bored. How is it?
T:Of course it can happen and an opposite pattern can happen, too. It can be that people are watching the same TV program in their living rooms but they exist in the quite different physical space. The question is what and how we can share. In effect, the physical space must be sharable for anyone. However almost all our substances are not in the physical space but in the information space. The living things exist in both the physical and the information space. Especially human beings have developed their brains. They have their own realities much more in the information space than in the physical space so that we hardly exist in the shared world.
S:Then can we say that lovers are the closest ones in the world where we exist and recognize scatteredly?
T:Correctly the two who have the same illusion like that.
S:Illusion. At first, they regard it as natural to stay together, they see the same things in the crowds, say gitfs beautifulh seeing flowers and gyoufre beautifulh, gyoufre nice, tooh but their love gradually gets cold.
T:It is sure that what they says are off the point from the beginning. But when they are under the illusion that they share their physical spaces, they can be mistaken because every neurotransmitters give pleasure to them. They are satisfied with that. However actually they share nothing from the beginning.
S:From the beginning.
S:Then is the great feeling of happiness due to endorphins or serotonins?
T:It is a little delicate problem. The gfeelingh is almost due to serotonins. The serotonin is a strange substance which restrains both neurotransmitters and endrocrine disruptors. Correctly speaking adrenalines and noradrenalines are endrocrine disruptors, dopamines are evidently a neurotransmitter. When these substances are secreted, serotonins come out to restrain them. Of course serotonins fill the different roles in the bowels or in other the organs. But in the brain they work as an inhibitory substance. They are secreted last after dopamines which excite us, beta-endolphins related to pain and noradrenalines related to fear are secreted abundantly. Then we feel happy. It is an easy question for the brain when we feel happy. The answer is gmore sufferingh, gmore painh and gmore fearh. The more suffering, the more serotonins the brain secretes to make us happy. This is the skill religions have used. But it is a big mistake to think this way. Yhe true happiness consists in abstraction-extent of much upper information space. The true answer is simpler that ga person who thinks he/she is happy is happyh. General people canft think theyfre happy except in the time when they feel nice. But itfs not true. For example, a traffic accident. One of my students have experienced it. He had an accident of motorcycle and blood streamed, bones were broken and he looks in pain. But he says he was very happy. Because it was a sign which means he was alive to feel pain. Even if we feel pain, we can get happy by thinking it is good to be alive. This is an example. The true happiness is in much upper abstraction-extent. A perso who thinks he/she is happy is happy. Yet most people feel happy only in comfort. They are programmed like this because they belong to society.
S:Considering your words, as a result, more serotonins are secreted in the case where they feel pain of love no matter whether theyfre a masochist or not.
T:Yes. The harder their love is, the happier at last.
S:In romantic movies, most films are on the line of this pattern like gTwo for the seesawh, gYour name ish and gWinter sonatah of these days.
T:Many Korean films are made like that.
S:They have force. Up and down, up again and down again. So in this love which has force, many serotonins are secreted and make us feel happy. And even if they will stop, they canft help but continue to love.
T:Especially beta-endorphins are related to pain, adrenalines are related to excitement, noradrenalines are secreted a lot in fear, and dopamines are related to sport. But when we exercise, usually VTA works and dopamines tends to be secreted in exercise of instinct like reproduction or meal. Thatfs enough they are secreted. The more excited and scared, the more serotonins. So the harder and pitiful the love is, the more pleasure they get.
S:For example, their parents get opposed to their relation.
T:So much. But it is not true love. The happiness of serotonin at physical level. In the true love a person who thinks he/she is happy is happy. Itfs more metaphoric data processing.
S:Are there any steps of transition from physical happiness to abstracted happiness to get to upper level?
T:Yes. For that, the prefrontal area is necessary. So we have to use our brain.
S:It is, generally speaking, related to intelligence, learning and culture.
T:Stated simply, we have to rise above individual. Scared by noradrenalines, refreshed by serotonins, they all are individual experiences. During at the stage of individuals, we canft get out of it permanently. Not like so, the happiness of upper abstraction-extent means others look comfortable, not suffering and pleased so that we come to think we are happy. For example, now the number of people suffering from hunger is increasing. 850 million 2 years ago, a billion last year. But the statistics are delayed one year so that the number already had reached a billion two years ago actually. And we are taking action to help a billion people. That those people get happy is a much happy thing, isnft it? To come to think like this, we have to rise above the level of individuals. This is the abstraction-extent. It needs the prefrontal area
S:Letfs get back again to love. How are a husband and a wife, the onefs ultimate goal in life is to save a billion people from hunger and the other doesnft think so?
T:Is it OK?
S:It is all right that individual goals are different so that a couple doesnft have to share a goal. However they must have a concern for themselves in their goals. No matter what goals they can have. One takes action to make people all over the world happy by music, the other saves people from hunger. If the two are a couple, Ifm sure that they recognize each other as one of those people of the world. So therefs no need they have the same goal. But each goal must have the abstraction-extent to some extent.
S:One has much upper abstraction-extent so that he/she can think about humankind and the other can think nothing but about today or tomorrow, and education for onefs children in the physical space, if theyfre a couple, I guess they will quarrel so much.
T:It is the best way to say, gRead my bookh.
S:Training to make abstraction-extent upper, namely to become a person who can think about others. So many mothers can think about nothing but happiness of their own physical space, education for their children and employment at good companies where employees can earn so much money in the principle of competitions. In such climate, fathers are made what their wives want and children grow, as a result more and more people donft know how the true love is. It is grobot-likeh.
T:Itfs not grobot-likeh buy gdog-cat-likeh. Even parents of dogs or cats cherish their children. If human parents are thought they do their children and are devoted, it is no great. Dogs and cats are the same as them. So I call it gdog-cat-likeh rather than grobot-likeh. They have to slough off, or human beings will disappear.
Radio Nippon presents, gSugahara Akikofs EDGE TALKhPart3 Guest is Mr. Tomabechi Hideto
S:It is an example of my daughter that every time I see she get in love and get disappointed in love, I get worried about her. She is a make-up artist and studies the beauty treatment. She wanted to make her abstraction-extent upper and to think about others so that she can get true love. And she established a charity make-up association to make up disabled gorls. Then her boyfriend said to her, gYou must not be able to do like thath.
T:We call a person like him ga dream killerh. It is said in books. Close people are apt to be.
S:Yes. I think so, too. And I said to her gItfs not love. Quit himh, gAffirm you can do it and quit himh. At last she did him. But he was usually so nice a person. Are people like him increasing?
T:It is typical of Japanese guys. In brief, they want to get in love as a normal male and female so that they are gentle. But they also dislike that girls close to them including their partner are superior to them. Thi is because of vague Confucian education. Until quite recently the number of women was not included in the population of Japan. Quite recently, you know? I donft know why exactly, but it is natural in Japanese culture. There was a brainwashing instinctively implanted, so-called Confucian brainwashing. This is one of the reasons. Probably it is the same as this that this idea is still rooted in countryside. Some people still consider it natural that men possess women. So a love affair of men is forgiven but that of women is not. Because a husband possesses his wife and she belongs to his territory. It is rooted so strongly in Japanese guys.
S:Is it peculiar to Japan?
T:No. but this logic must be formed in autocratic government where a religion is slotted in the logic of control to maintain itself. So it is not only in Japan. But it is especially strong in Confucian countries.
S:Domestic violence by husband was affirmed before W.W.U like gSoon after marriage, hit your wifeh. There were many cases where a foolish guy who had learned it could be a husband. In such a meaning, to pass onefs life well means to have right parts as a human being as the basics of love, or one canft be happy, canft he/she?
T:However you donft have to think about gthe others except yourselfh but gpeople including yourselfh when you practice it. To make your abstraction-extent upper means that it is necessary to emphasize you and the others equally.
S:But this way of thinking is not written in the textbook and I donft know where we can learn it. I donft know whether wefre taught in school or not.
T:It is because the Meiji Government had thought gConfucianism is goodh at that time. I can under stand it. Because it is ideal as a logic of control. It has been implanted in Japanese education system. And it is based on that of England where a true hierarchical society existed. The Meiji Government implanted a logic of control well. The text book after Meiji period says Japan had the hierarchical system called the four categories of the people like the caste or the hierarchical system of England in Edo period. But it was not as the textbook says. It was looser than we learn. You know it by watching gMito Komonh. Samurais were so poor that they were ejected by their landlord, werenft they? Or they earned their life by making umbrellas. The Meiji Government switched from the period of loose system to the period of essentially hierarchical system nearly close to caste. Confucianism helped it so much.
S:This story is so interesting that we are going to hear the continuation next week. Thank you for listening.